Oops, I Did It Again (Press vs Community)

Well in typical Steve fashion, I ran my mouth and upset some people.  Over at my favorite place to speak my mind, twitter, I said something that some how managed to get a lot of response, way more then what I thought. I had a lot of people ask if that was about them, well to tell you guys the truth, if I talk to you it wasn’t about you. There was recently a podcast where there was some talk about the gaming communities and press. Don’t ask me which show because I’m not going to link it.

Actually I guess I should have started this off by saying, hey, to anyone upset with this, sorry. I’m not writing this to offend anyone nor start anything with any site, show, person, none of that. So if I do upset you, I’m actually sorry, that wasn’t the intention. And I should also say that any of my opinions said here are just that, my opinions, they are not necessarily the opinions of any other website I’m apart of nor an of the shows that are associated with me. I’m actually writing this because we are having some great weather outside so I wanted to write something outside to enjoy this weather and this subject is on my mind still.

Ok, back to topic, so there was a podcast that was just release a day or two ago, on that show a couple things where mentioned that really annoyed me and that’s what started this whole thing. Now this is not a direct quote but you will get the idea, so what was said was something to the degree of, someone was upset because they were not getting as much special treatment as before (do to so many fresh websites, podcasts and such), they weren’t getting flown out to as many events as before, and something like they weren’t getting as many games. So because of that it makes them curious if its all worth it.

Now that right there really annoys me and pisses me off. Hold on a sec though, just to clear the air, I’m not jealous, I’m not hating and I’m not the ass that most think I am.

What pisses me off is the fact ANY feels they are due anything. I spent several hours a day working on PN in some fashion, am I due anything, no, not the least little bit. Seriously no one but myself and my wife knows how much time I actually put into the site, and you guys wouldn’t believe the sacrifices I actually make. Still with that I know that I’m not owed a thing, not now, not ever.

I feel that if you think that way you need to get out. That type of attitude hurts the indie sites. In fact the whole part of being an indie site is being INDEPENDENT. Just to clarify though, yes I do get some stuff, I won’t lie. I get games (don’t keep any of them), I have ad revenue (I’ve invested thousands of dollars into PN, The Gamers Pub and XBL Radio, not counting my time) but the thing is if those go away, I really don’t care. I don’t care if I get games, I don’t care if I make money, I don’t care if I get invited to special events. Yes its all nice and all but that’s not why I do this. I just love being involved, I love the interactions, I love the people and most of all, I just love games.

Another thing that was brought up that I want to discuss what the special treatment subject that I mentioned earlier. That was said in reference to E3 and the way MS has been treating indie sites. I have news for you all, MS doesn’t really care about indie sites (that’s a very very general statement, there are a couple that do, Trixie360 is one from MS is unbelievably awesome and supportive), but most do not. Guess what people, GSB isn’t there to keep you in the know, GSB is there so MS doesn’t have to deal with community sites, so they can control what news you get, how you get it and the angle its given. Sorry but that’s true, I’m sure I’ll upset some with that statement but its just the way it is. No longer do they have to worry about slip ups (well most of the time), no longer do they have to worry about misstatements and now that they have everyone going to their sites no longer do they have to support the indie community. Its not just me saying that either, well maybe it is, but that’s out loud, everyone else is whispering it to each other.

Ok so I got sidetracked a little bit, damn Steve, stay on track. So GSB is no longer their to help the communities, and either is Edelman, do you know what that means? No one is now, simple fact. No reason to bitch about it, no reason to question if its worth your effort or if you get enough recognition, just move on, trust me, they have.

Last topic, free games and getting flown out to events. Seriously what makes anyone think that they first are owned free games? Do what the rest of your community does, buy them, only then will you honestly be able to rate a game, only then will you be able to honestly appraise its value. DO NOT bitch if you are no longer getting games, those in your community don’t get free games.

Once I start thinking that I’m better then those in my community I’m no longer looking out for them, I no longer have their best interest at heart.

Now for getting flown out to events, this one just makes me laugh really hard. If anyone is upset about not getting flown to events as much as before, please for me and EVERY SINGLE GAMER OUT THERE, LEAVE. You have now lost focus on what your doing and why your here. I’m not saying don’t take a flight because I know I would if it was offered, who wouldn’t, but if your not getting flown out as much as you might have before in the past and your upset about it, well its time for you to retire all together. You no longer have any business trying to be a leader in the community, your no longer looking out for the gamers interest, now its always about you.

Well that’s it for me, sorry about the extremely long ramble, sorry about any negativity (wasn’t the point of this) and sorry about jumping from point A to C, back to B, over to E and so on.

BTW, I did have a very nice talk with one of the people that were on this show that I’m referring to and I know of a few others that were on this show, I’m sorry if anything I said here upsets you guys and gal, I actually do like you guys, and gal, we just might have a difference of opinion, nothing more.

Anyways peeps, show me some love, leave some comments, let me here your honest take. Who knows, maybe I’m in the wrong and I just don’t see it.


~ by Steven Artlip (Steve519) on August 11, 2008.

27 Responses to “Oops, I Did It Again (Press vs Community)”

  1. awesome post I’m with you 100% if all your gonna do is bitch about stuff your not getting then leave

  2. hey Britney. 😉 lol.

    everyone has different reasons for doing what they do. the points i made only apply to me when i spoke about doing it for fun. i’m not the same as all other sites out there trying to compete.

    what i said on the show is just how i am. i’m open & honest with the people/community who decide to listen in on me. that’s just me.

    i’ve never felt like anyone owed me anything that’s why when i do get the pleasure of being invited somewhere, it’s always super exciting. and that’s even if i go myself and not pay it forward to another member of the community which i do often.

    i think everyone should have a chance at experiencing what i’ve had the pleasure of experiencing so i’m always giving back. i’d love to keep all the things i get but what’s the fun in that when you have thousands/millions of people visiting the site that made it possible for me to receive things in the first place.

    anyway, we’re all different that’s all. i try not to let perception get in the way of making things awesome for my community.

    i hope you don’t hate me lol. i’m assuming you don’t because my contributions to the show weren’t mentioned as ticking you off. but then, like i said..i’m in my own little corner just trying to have some fun. that’s why i do it.

    anyone who knows Deacon, will tell you that i’m a community guy through & through. just a normal dude trying to have fun.

    i’ll tell you the story about the sister who wanted to kidnap me one day 🙂 well it’s late…interesting read and i do agree..TriXie is teh awesome!

  3. Deacon I really like you man, your a fellow jarhead! None of my points here, as you noticed, had to do with anything you said, your a great person and huge asset to the Xbox community. See you at PAX?

  4. couldn’t have put it better my self, but really would like too! Very nice post Steve! Reminds me of why I started listening to XBLRadio in the first place! “Honesty”! should be held higher then “exclusivity”!

  5. i was rocking my original dog tags too lol. Ooorah! yeah i should be at PAX..gonna get confirm on that this week i hope. i have plans to spank kiki kat and a few others so i gotta go lol

  6. Steve, while I agree with you on that fact that someone shouldn’t ever expect to get “free” things for what they do, I do also have a tad bit of warning.

    One thing I think you’re now starting to realize is, you and other higher ups within Platform Nation are getting in the view of others. These people don’t know you, your sense of humor or really care for that matter. The important thing is, over time these people are going to see what you say and disagree, why? Because like I said, they don’t know you, nor really care to but they’ll hold every little thing you say as a possible insult or use it as a way to cause drama. It’s pretty much to the point in Platform Nations life that (and again sadly) things need to be watched before they’re said. The outright rants need to be thought over more, the “joke” posts or the “I didn’t mean to” posts need to be really considered before being released, especially with you and other people more involved/known within PN.

    But back to the matter at hand, it’s sad to see people expecting to get things out of this and it really does kill the sense of independence we’ve (I’ve) grown accustom to. I can say what I want, do what I want and not really have to care if someone at Sony, Microsoft, Capcom, Square has a problem with it (they wouldn’t hear what I say anyway :P).

    Greedy people like that ruin the fun of a simple project that just keeps me out of trouble and gives me something to do.

  7. one final note before i go to bed. Godfree & Vicious are good friends of mine. as are you. i’ve helped you all with things over the years. hell i’ve helped pretty much everybody lol

    and i just think the perception is really wrong about what they were saying.

    just an honest opinion of mine really. i think we all need to strike a blow for the community as a whole and get together. my personal view on the community isn’t a pleasant one and that’s really sad. there’s a thin line out there on what “community” really is.

    united we stand, divided we fall. no more true words have been spoken ya know. if we’re really all about community then i’d hope at some point those of us who define ourselves as “leaders” in this community would lead by example to show our respective communities how things are really done.

    there’s a battle for what i consider “scraps” in the community between leaders regardless of if that’s owned up to. it boils down to really showing what a group of friggin talented people could do if they all came together. can you really imagine that?

    of course not because it’s likely not to happen. too many people want to be the “one” in the community as i see it. but really, i’d like for those of us “in the shine” to do something truly big for the community and get together on a project just to show our fans who support us something awesome.

    my 2 cents of course. bed time now. 🙂

  8. I can only speak for myself, but I think one of my biggest concerns is the fact that PR turnover is making it hard for us growing communities to create a relationship and therefore get access to events.

    I am all for working your ass of for your site. I basically have two full time jobs, one that pays, the other takes all my money. And I love it. I do however, want to do my site full time one day. I’d love to pay my awesome staff that works hard and writes amazing content. I have many goals and ideas in where I want to take the site and my wonderful readers.

    My site has been live for two years (next month). I introduce myself and my site to PR people and asked to be placed on press release lists. I belong to many gaming journalists forums, and the most common question is, how do I get a dev kit or review copies? Before they have a site up, before there are visitors.

    I am used to being on teams where the new people have to work hard and prove themselves before they are initiated into the big leagues. That’s how I see it. Only by getting the numbers that companies ask for and prove to them why they should pay attention to your site, do you get anything.

    The community as a whole seems to bicker more than do things together. Many of the people I know that started gaming sites have changed their site completely or closed them. The gaming industry is growing up and gaming journalism should as well. At GA, we have partnerships developing with other sites just for that purpose. It’s too bad that you took the whole podcast as a complaint fest instead of seeing it as an open discussion as to some of the issues we face as a growing community.

  9. Hey Steve, I have no idea who you are, but every time I get a link to something you’ve written it’s always you talking smack about someone else in independent gaming. It’s kinda sad that I keep having to hear the same dumbass comments from you on other blogs about Godfree. It’s a real shame. Are you really that low that you have to attempt to “start drama” or make a name for yourself by calling him out?

    Is it really that bad that he’d like a reward for the HOURS, upon HOURS of work that he does? Speaking as the editor of Sarcasticgamer.com, I know the amount of time I put into it. I’ve never gotten a plane ticket or review copies of a game, but heck, that would be pretty cool, wouldn’t it? People like Godfree do a ton for the video game community at large. Who are you to call him out? Good fucking grief. Get. Over. Yourself.

    Have your point of view all you want, Steve, but I think it’s pathetic. I’m sorry I gave you a page view, or even responded, cause this “rant” isn’t really worth it, other than to stick up for the people I know that deserve it.

  10. Lono, thanks for staying in character. I to have noticed that every time I anything from of you its neg about myself, but I guess its all about what goes around comes around, right?

    While I understand you coming to your friends back (I would honestly do the same), please realize that I did not write this to attack anyone.

    I just had something on my mind so I felt like saying it (I’m still allowed to right? As a military dude I always thought that was one of the things that we protect)

    Anyways take it easy.

  11. Please explain how this paragraph, that you wrote, isn’t attacking someone?

    “Now for getting flown out to events, this one just makes me laugh really hard. If anyone is upset about not getting flown to events as much as before, please for me and EVERY SINGLE GAMER OUT THERE, LEAVE. You have now lost focus on what your doing and why your here. I’m not saying don’t take a flight because I know I would if it was offered, who wouldn’t, but if your not getting flown out as much as you might have before in the past and your upset about it, well its time for you to retire all together. You no longer have any business trying to be a leader in the community, your no longer looking out for the gamers interest, now its always about you.”

    come on dude… nuff said.

  12. I never liked Steve to begin with.

  13. But I love my iphone.

  14. @Davide I should have man you sign a contract pledging your forever love before I sent you that iPhone

  15. I’m just some random dude from Australia. I listen to all of your podcast guys and girls.

    Damn steve519, you really know how to piss people off.

    I’m with godfree on this one.

    Good podcast and bloggers should be rewarded, think about it. All the people of who are not at these awesome and not so awesome events (e3, pax), want to hear what they were like from a gamers point of view. Not Major nelson and E’s view. (I all ready know there option of the Microsoft Conference 2009…..”IT ROCKS MAN”). LOL

    We need these guys and girls out there working it.


    Please steve519, the podcast was not about getting free games…..Dude plzzz, get with it

    PS: Sarcastic gamer is my favorite podcast

  16. @Lono I think the point of it is that as a community site you shouldn’t expect to get stuff. I know I’ve never been flown to an event or given a free game with the exception of maybe an Arcade title or two but it hasn’t changed the way I feel about the community and being a part of it. I know everybody puts in hours and hours of time and effort into their sites and I respect Godfree and everybody else that is a part of a community but the point of all this is that if it has reached a point where anybody expects stuff like that to happen for you it may be time to take a step back and remember why you do what you do. It should be about enjoying it not about getting something out of it.

  17. I think anyone who wants to comment on this topic should listen to the audio in question BEFORE posting something about it. ——————–

    And Steve should take a Q-tip to your ears prior to listening to it again b/c you COMPLETELY missed the point of the discussion. Yes, you are in the wrong and don’t see it.

    On the other hand, it’s interesting to know you frequent the GTR site considering how much you seem to dislike them…they must be doing something right.

  18. Sorry PMS Harlequin, no links on this subject. In fact I didn’t want to bring names into this either because I did not write this for that.

    The whole point of this article was to get out there that as a community you shouldn’t except things and you really shouldn’t be upset when you don’t get anything.

    I was not trying to talk about the whole point of the discussion, just the parts that I disagreed with.

    I did not write this whole thing to actually talk negative about any one individual, it might look that way but that was not the goal, it just so happened that one individual said all the points that I was talking about.

    I feel that on anyone in the community that if they don’t feel they are getting enough games, plane tickets or special treatment that it is time that they leave the gaming community. Because at that point they no longer have the best interest of the community at heart.

  19. Steve,

    I think you’re either a) still missing the point or b) somehow twisting the community vs press issue to fit your argument/statement. You state you didnt wish to put a name to who it is you’re talking about, yet everyone knows who it is. Why not just be upfront about it and not skirt the issue. Man up dude.

    Independant does not equal community, no matter how you slice it. I’m not going to lie, I agree with some of the points you made, but it has nothing to do with getting free games or special treatment. BAPenguin said it perfectly in his blog (no worries, I wont link it. I’m sure the community knows how to use the Google machine).

    And since when did you become the community’s interest monitor?

    It has to do with getting the same respect as community sites as the other bigger sites (Kotaku, Joystiq, even Destructoid). The free games or trips to events are earned through hard work and given not just to sites like yours or ours, but even to forum members for their dedication and effort. You think the smaller sites get games to review or give out to their audience? Yes GTR and a bunch of other community sites do, but only because of their hard work.

    Consider the fact that the only true barometer of a game comes from a gamer him/herself, and not the corporate PR/Marketing cubicle dweller that is paid to big up the game’s good points and downplay its negatives. Who’s opinion would you rather have? I’ve been invited to several events and give my opinion on the game based not on the Publisher provided hotel/airplane/drinks/dinner/schwag but rather the game itself.

    Also consider the fact that some of us, myself included would much rather stay at home and garner a paycheck for playing/reviewing games and reporting about the industry (and its community). Wouldn’t you prefer to stay at home with your family and do what you are passionate about while still getting a salary commensurate to what a full-time job/career would net you?

    We are all community, whether we like it or not. We all have different view points and express them as such with our blogs, sites, forums, etc. As cliche as it may sound, why can’t we get along?

  20. Well said Peterocc.

  21. Man, just like Lono said, every time I get a link to ANYTHING of Steve519’s, its something attacking someone else.

    Steve, first off, thank you for serving our country. Nothing but respect to you…..hope you and your family are doing wonderful.

    But man, just like my friend Vicious696 said in that exact audio that you won’t let anyone link to, us fighting within communities is what HURTS the entire community, pushing it further away from becoming something spectacular.

    I understand that you have an opinion and want to voice it, but geez man, does it always have to be in a way of downgrading someone else? Can’t you just say ‘I respect all those guys’ opinions, although they aren’t my opinions, I respect them,’ instead of downgrading their opinions and saying they need to leave the community?

    I mean, you saying they should quit, but excuse me, who are you to say they should leave? They are in the trenches in this industry all the same. They have probably put in the same amount of $$$ and time in their respective communities and sites as you have.

    Can’t we all just stop pitting ourselves against one another and fight on together to bust open the doors of the GOW 2 parties and others alike? Shouting from the rooftops together, saying ‘HEY! We have a voice in this community too, don’t shut us out!’

    The division in blogs such as this is the EXACT reason why the fight is as hard as it is now. Because what dev/publisher is going to want to invite Godfree and Steve519 to an event, knowing their communities bicker? Whereas if there was peace, both you guys could go, get that great coverage for you communites, and everyone is happy. I mean, it makes sense to me.

    Or is all that too hard for anyone to do?

  22. are you guys seriously passing the link around? I feel special now 🙂

    you guys can say what you want about me, that’s fine, I really don’t care.

    I’m an extremely open person with my thoughts and I’m extremely honest. I figured I might upset some with this, especially because it seemed to strike a nerve but once more that wasn’t the point.

    I’m happy to see more communities, I’m happy to see less pickings for everyone else. Its about time.

    Now maybe this will help weed out those sour apples that are in it for the wrong reasons.

    We all should be doing this because of our love for the community and love of video games.

    I do not have a desire to make this into a career, maybe that’s why my take is just different. Because I’m not looking to have my site and my community take ME anywhere maybe I just have a different mindset over the whole issue.

    As for division in websites, there will always be division, people are different.

    I do find it a little funny though that while I have a few negative comments on here (on an article that wasn’t made to be a negative outburst), that I received about 3 positive private emails for EACH of the negative comments concerning what I have said here.

  23. yes you are ‘open’ and are honest about your thoughts, that doesn’t just make it ok to tear down others.
    You just said that the article wasn’t meant to be a negative outburst. Then what was the fourth paragraph from the bottom intended to be? Positive? And how come you speak for ‘every single Gamer out there?’ I’m a gamer, and I’m ‘out there,’ but you most certainly don’t speak for me.
    All the people giving you those positive emails about the 3 negative points are probably just kissing some tail to get within the vision cone of someone that runs some sites.
    Let’s be ‘honest about our thoughts here. Anytime Godfree or anyone from other gaming networks gets some popularity, others from different outlets have to jump up and down and say ‘Hey look at us! We’re here too!’ Its probably been done from both sides…..

    I just NEVER see Godfree starting controversy, he’s focused on his thing for his community too much to start trouble with others so that he can get more attention….

  24. I thought this type of BS died with XBL. The same unfounded resentment that followed GCN getting gamerpics on XB Live.

    If you put an ounce of your mental energy to work getting attention for something positive you did, you’d be ranked a little higher than 20 millionth on Alexa.

    Steve, you’re wrong. Own up to it, knock that big ass chip off your shoulder, and get to work making this community all that it can be

  25. Thanks Beefy!

    actually my real site is ranked around 64k in the US. I hope you weren’t check this site out because I just use this as my person blog. A way to get things off my chest or things about my wife and family. I never planed on getting any more then 5-10 views a day over here.

    BTW, great news everyone, our charity that we are doing have now raised over 1300 games, yes 1300. If your going to be at PAX you can join us when we give that and hopefully around 2000 dollars to the Child’s Play Charity.

  26. I don’t understand why everyone is attacking you Steve. You are just posting your opinion on your own personal blog and everyone is coming here and attacking you for your opinion. I don’t think it’s you with “the big old chip on the shoulder”. You spoke your opinion and that’s that. And I commend you for that.

    But anyways,good luck to you and the rest of the Platform Nation. I will be there for the stream and will also be posting an embed of the stream over at 360evolved.com

  27. You are doing the exact thing that you are accusing GCN of doing…whining…

Leave a Reply to Lono Cancel reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: